Rules of Survival
Ahh…the smell of bull-shit in the morning. Nothin’ like it! After encountering this steaming pile, I was left trying to shake the smell all day. Has it been that long since the post on gaslighting? Gaslighting is all about changing minds, too. Well, since the first bolded sentence references politics, perhaps it is prudent to note that politics is about the exercise of power.
Where are these questions about change and accountability taking place? What are the operational backdrops, the stage-settings?
- Christianity—both the religious and cultural practices. That one has a moral obligation to forgive anyone of anything at their request…or even, not at their request. To fail to do so is considered a grievous sin and act of evil. UPDATED: Also, we are all sinners, and all sins are the same in the sight of God (all bad acts are equally bad).
- Brainwashing of oppressed and marginalized individuals and communities to accept their lesser status. “Forgive and forget.” “Water under the bridge.” “Greater reward in forgiveness” (what Joe Hill called “pie in the sky when you die”). The erasure of history and encouragement of historical amnesia. Permeating every facet of a political culture of injustice are various messages to give one’s oppressors continued opportunity to engage in and advance their oppression. The oppressed are called upon to do the work of the oppressor on themselves, lightening the oppressor’s burden once again.
- Calvinism that has filtered through the USian political backdrop—the blessed have power, those who do not are not blessed. Also, there are a limited number of blessed, and who is blessed and who is damned is predestined—no amount of effort can change it. The blessed are not required to respect the dignity of the damned.
- the Protestant Work Ethic—the idea that hard work is good in its own right and that ‘the elect’ are visible through the fruits of their work.
- Individualism—the rugged individual, standing on his or her own ground, unaffected by the masses, more powerful than the larger social forces surrounding him or her.
- Objectivism—the extolling of selfishness as the highest human virtue and the near-worship of laissez-faire capitalism.
- and along with all that, kyriarchal value (already reinforced as intrinsic) permeates our everyday physical lives. Housing, neighborhoods, school districts, healthcare, grocery stores, the infrastructure of cities, the goods and food one can afford to buy, existance of or access to the commons—all this and more serve to remind individuals and communities exactly where they stand in relation to others.
The injured are constantly being asked to cede power to their injurers. Taken to task when they refuse to do so. Make no mistake; this is the operating framework. And it is within this framework that the injured are being asked (yet again) to question themselves when it comes to forgiveness. To ask themselves if they “actually believe people can change”. What the parameters of accountability look like. They are being asked to do the work—work that benefits the injurer, often at the direct expense of the injured. They are also asked to consider these questions as separate and apart from the social/political dynamics that are inseparable from their lives. As individual questions, apart from the collective structures where they originate. This is a toxic dynamic. It violates the basic rules of survival.
In the spirit of prioritizing the injured, rather than the injurers:
- No one is entitled to your forgiveness.
- It is not immoral to refuse to forgive.
- It is not immoral to protect yourself.
- Refusing to engage with those who have harmed you is a viable and healthy form of self-protection.
- Refusing to engage with those who share the same toxic traits as those who have harmed you, (especially when they have a track record of harming others, and most especially when that track record shows a distinct pattern of targeting people that resemble you), is a viable and healthy form of self-protection.
- Questioning the narratives you have been taught, and discerning what (and who) promotes your health and survival from what (and who) does not, is a viable and healthy form of self-protection.
Transformative Justice is a liberatory practice of healing individuals and communities. The process of transformative justice is not placed in the individual setting, but in the context of state and systemic oppression and violence. It prioritizes the needs of oppressed and marginalized people in an unjust system; it does not require vulnerable people to relinquish their human need for safety and security. Most important to remember is that much of the work on transformative justice in the United States was envisioned and developed by women of color in response to the prison-industrial complex. So, when asking questions of accountability, one has to keep in mind who is accountable to whom. In that light, why is it contingent upon marginalized people and communities to enact and enforce accountability from those with greater power who utilize and exploit the aforementioned state and systemic oppression for their own ends? How, exactly, can that happen? With the pre-existing structures still intact?




I didn’t even need to check the link to know what you’re talking about. Clarisse Thorn spends a lot of time defending the undefensable and then blaming people who won’t forgive on her and an attempted-murderer’s schedule. What’s getting lost in all the responses to the shitstorm are the layers of skeeze that make up Schwyzer’s story—or stories.
He decided that his unconscious girlfriend—whose business he laid all out on the street, including coerced sex with a dealer, it seems, which doesn’t appear to bother him—-would be better off dead. He didn’t consult her. He did make sure we knew about the sex they had. As he makes sure that he was voted hottest proffessor somewhere, somehow, which is incredibly grotesque in a guy who used to fuck his students. Bragging about any of these things doesn’t indicate he’s reformed: it says to me that he wants us to know how much he gave up to be a feminist (who talks over feminists and isn’t exactly eager to listen to us at all) and we better keep that in mind. The implication is that if we don’t appreciate his awesome sacrifices, then he’ll just take his over-exposed balls and go home. Telling people in great details about the depths he descended to doesn’t impress me. It reminds me of how conservatives always claim they used to be liberal before they saw the light. He likes telling those details.
I don’t much trust Xtians, but I really don’t trust the ones who seem to think they can forgive themselves, or claim that Jebus forgave them—-and then go on to sin and sin and sin repeatedly. Because then they can go and get forgiven again and again—-what’s a matter, are you a bad, vengeful, whatever, Xtian?
And to hear Clarisse Thorne whip out ‘tone’ and claim she got threats when her writing about various subjects is so cock-eyed…..Yeah, her perspective isn’t exactly trustworthy.
He did make sure we knew about the sex they had.
I know!! I mean FFS. I just thought that post was a total perversion of the concept of transformative justice. I was fucking livid before I went to work, ranting and raving. My dad is visiting, so I printed the damn thing off for him to read and give an objective opinion on, because I was to the point where I. just. couldn’t. He wrote out his notes on the printed copy I gave him, but his basic reply was “no one is obligated to forgive” and “you change because it’s the right thing to do; it can’t be conditional—’I'll change if you….’ In other words, put up or shut up.” and then we talked about consequences being essential to the process, and time, and the burden resting on the shoulders of the transgressor, because that’s the person that needs to do the work. My dad referenced Nathan Leopold (of “and Loeb”) as evidence that people can change, but….the predictors of how likely or successful a change will take place (in an adult) are (1)how ingrained the habits are and (2) how long the behavior has continued—and basically, “who is this person?” Y’know, at his or her core. I’m a big believer in using behavior (rather than speech) to make my judgement, and paying attention to “tells” (like the aforementioned making sure we knew about the sex). Gavin de Becker’s “The Gift of Fear” needs to be required reading.
Yeah, forgiveness is a nice thing if you can do it. But you don’t owe anybody but yourself. And he whined about how the woman’s family wouldn’t speak to him! Did you notice he set up her death first before he made that whiny phone to a friend, which wound up saving them both?
The male feminists I keep coming across all do this thing where they expect feminism and feminists to give them shit so they don’t go back to their wicked old ways—-tone being the least of those things. But that’s not being an ally and that’s not being feminist. In fact, if you want to be an effective feminist you have to take a step that feels like it’s off the edge of a cliff. You have to make a commitment. You’ll never be able to look at everything you once took for granted ever again. You’ll question everything. That first period of discovery is very off-putting. Yet I keep seeing all these young kids and young guys who think that they’ll be the first person to make feminism popular for the masses. (That’s where they get the easy basic stuff right—rape is wrong, slut bashing is wrong, equal pay for equal work….) But then you go deeper and it’s not as easy, and you’re going to have to question yourself too. There’s stuff you’re going to have to give up. And worse yet, there’s stuff you’re going to have to do. Other people won’t like you. You’ll lose friends. And people should expect that, and ask themselves this question: Are any friends at all better than waiting to meet true friends, true allies?
Hugo never took that step off the cliff. He’s always been in it for the what’s in it for me part, and he doesn’t offer much in return—-oh, except for piggybacking on women who’ve said it before and better. He doesn’t fight that, either.
Being a feminist ally means, to me, fighting on my side. I’ve had so-called feminists tear me down in front of MRAs and then declare themselves better than me because they’re not those humorless evil old feminists. Hugh’s never defended a feminist unless he picked the wrong person—-defending Amanda Marcotte during the book brouhaha. He uses feminism to be unique and speshul and all snowflakey. There’s always the sense that he’ll ditch the movement if he doesn’t get his cookies—and he’s always looking for cookies.
That piece about his ex was nauseating for the exact same reason so much MRA writing is: If a woman is terribly terribly hurt by sexism, the truly important question is how does it affect Our Hero? He sees himself as a hero on This Quest, and alas, too many feminist sites seem to break down and coo every time a man shows up who’s somewhat tolerable. And Hugh, let’s face it, has a long history of sucking up to MRAs while snipping at feminists for their tone. But it’s all for him to practice on, and if a bunch of women have to deal with more sexism so he can learn more, well, what a small price to pay, right? I’ve always got the impression that it’s not women he cares so much about—-after all, women don’t have a lot of feminist men to pick from—-but MRAs. As a former sinner, he really really wants to reform a sinner. That would be an immense feather in his cap.
Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior, absent truly stunning behavioral changes. True changes are very rare, and because it’s such a fragile thing, I’ve found that people trying to change don’t want to open it up for challenge. And, yeah, the biggest thing: remorse. He was bragging about it, not lamenting it. At no point did he display any compassion or intimacy with that woman. He valued her only for being an object he valued. He owned her.
If Hugo was really sorry, he’d step up and say that it bothered him so much that he was turning himself in. Instead, he checked with lawyers to make sure he could get away with it. Punishment, expiation, what have you—-I’ve cut my arms open to make some of the pain and guilty go away. I bet Hugo’s arms—-despite his reference to self cutting in that piece—–are pristine.
THANK YOU!!!!!!! that is all.
THANK YOU.
Really, I despise the forgiveness movement as it is because of the hectoring, blaming and shaming of survivors and the light hand the perps get. And while everyone is allowed redemption, survivors (or anyone, really) are not obligated to accept abusers, be the former or current. We just aren’t.
Also, I give any privileged “ally” in any movement who does their ally thing “professionally” the stink-eye.
See, the whole thing about redemption is…..why can’t we talk about the larger social forces operating in the background of this narrative? Why is it seen as damaging to the concept of redemption to even talk about how often the injured and vulnerable are supposed to suck it up and deal? Why is it seen as damaging to mention the power dynamics present, how one of the background narratives is the idea of “winners and losers”, with the injured/aggrieved/oppressed being in the position of “losers”—the people we’re already supposed to dismiss? Why the hell can we not talk about how our society at large rewards abusers for their abuse? And always has?
I referenced “gaslighting” because that is exactly how I feel.
The people that are wowed and awed and everything but Hugo’s ‘courage’ or whatever they’re calling shameless self-centeredness these days are just making me want to hurl. Another thing we need to discuss is how if a man shows up at a feminist space, he’ll get heaped on and praised and burped and blown and whatever because men are so rare.
Reminds me of the ballet company. Anyboy or man who showed up got leading roles, no matter how truly awful they were. We always needed men, so any man was acceptable, adored even. And some of them were just embarrassing as dancers. It’s the same all over: where there are few men, they get all the attention and praise.
If Hugo really wanted to be feminist, he’d stop being such a glory hound—-and shoving feminists into the background to gaze, adoringly, at him—-and defer to feminists. I’ve yet to see him do that.
And he made an appearance in that thread to sniff and make a sympathy grab. “I guess you all don’t like me, so I’ll go away now.” Not an acknowledgement that he tried to kill a woman—–and that it originally came up when some dude mentioned accidentally letting the dog out! Dogs, women—-all the same, right?
[...] La Lubu [...]
Pingback by Fauxminists, Season 3. « stop! talking. | 2011/12/28
[...] have to have followed all the links to understand it. If you want to follow the wider discussion La Lubu’s post is my favourite (I also think there’s been some good stuff on Tumblr, but I can never find [...]
Pingback by On Change and Accountability: A response to Clarisse Thorn | Alas, a Blog | 2011/12/28
In a moment of curiosity/masochism I went and looked at HS’s Facebook page for details. He seems very very distressed that people who he apparently considered friends are saying not so nice things about him. If you’re confused and upset that, upon learning that you tried to kill someone, people (“friends” included!) are angry or think less of you, you don’t know a damn thing about accountability. Online anger and opprobrium is a mild consequence compared to what could of happened if HS hadn’t been drowning in privilege at the time.
P.S. it’s also not a coincidence that the prodigal son narrative is available really only to the affluent.
Thanks for this. That mess over there was making me feel like I couldn’t trust myself or my reactions.
[...] out. The Feministe apology for posting the interview in the first place. And here some other posts discussing why people were/are offended by Schwyzer’s claims of [...]
Pingback by Out With the Old, In With the New | Polimicks | 2012/01/01
I’m just really glad I didn’t write the “Anniversary of 30 years of sobriety” post I was planning… I can see how well that would have gone over. I was getting ready to tattle on my addicted self in exactly the manner Hugo did. I know better now. Speaking of Christianity, Hugo has died for my sins!
Keeping all my secrets, and probably always will, at least from the internet.
Jesus Christ, have you seen Hugo’s take on the whole affair? Gee, there was shock and anger? Ya think? Asshole. He regrets. It was deeply foolish. Jesus Christ, where’s the whole ‘feminist’ thing?
Daisy, be well. I mean that.
Ginmar, I’m just disgusted (and not surprised) by the number of white middle class fauxminists who close ranks with their own.
I keep trying to keep holding to that sense of surprise. They’ll deign to tell us what our lives are like, and feel sorry for us, but sure wouldn’t have us to their no-doubt vegan, macrobiotic, whatever dinners. They have a cushion. We don’t. I wonder about the class and race of Hugo’s victims.
White upper class feminism starts out with a click moment when they realize they’re just like other women, OMG, and proceeds through where they think smugly that they’re not, and probably ends when they realize that you’ll pay a price for feminism as your life goes on—and it’s not one they care to pay when things stop being so comfortable.
The things I miss being off the blogosphere. Wow. Just, wow. Ick ick ick gah brrrr.
Anyone else think of Kyle Payne?
Also thinking about the Gospel admonition to not make a spectacle of your piety but go pray in your closet, somehow. No one’s “forgiveness” here should matter except the woman’s and her family’s. Since she/they didn’t, it is, how you say, Hugo’s “cross to bear;” at the very least, since apparently he is determined not to lose a single privilege as part of his penance and has enablers backing him up in this, he should have kept it to his damn self.
(later) …Actually, though, thinking about it, (and realizing that that blog post had been from nearly a year ago, actually, not something that came out during the interview, as I had assumed), I don’t even think he was in it for the “forgiveness” of the public. I think it’s just one more sign of his narcissism and fucked up moral compass. Yes, leaving the door open by accident so that your dog wandered out into a coyote filled outside (and CAME BACK SAFELY. but that was a bad 25 minutes, there) is *just like* nearly murdering your girlfriend.
“I totally feel you about having forgotten your grandma’s birthday. This one time, when I was really wasted and needed money to pay the dealer, I switched all the medication in my grandma’s pill bottles to cyanide caplets. I figured she wouldn’t notice they looked totally different. Luckily (what was I thinking? there’s no way I wouldn’t have been caught) my mom was there and she did notice something was weird, and she didn’t end up taking them, so she’s okay. I felt really bad about it when I sobered up, and she didn’t press charges, but she’s still not speaking to me any more, and she wrote me out of her will, *smiles bravely* Mom’s been a great support through all of it, of course. Oh, yeah, the nursing home knew about it when they hired me on as director. They’ve been great, too. Anyway, what I’m trying to say is, we all make mistakes, sometimes.”
…apparently he is open that he “suffers” from NPD, too. I hadn’t realized. Well, then.
The thing about NPD is, mostly, it’s everyone *around* the person who suffers.
Sometimes I think the self-help culture has a lot to answer for.
“I’m OK, But Enough About Me, What Do -You- Think Of Me?”
Yes.